Sharyn Schneiderman

Crangle: Sharyn, could I just start by asking you to state your name and place and date of birth?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Sharyn Lynne Schneiderman. I was born April the 24th, 1943, in Portland.

Crangle: Okay, and where abouts in Portland did you grow up?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I grew up in northeast Portland.

Crangle: Okay. So that was away from the main hub of the Jewish community, if you like. Tell me about the makeup of your household growing up.
SCHNEIDERMAN: So, my parents – Minnette and Lester Salmenson – my sister Beverly, and myself.

Crangle: Okay, and your parents, were they also born in Portland?
SCHNEIDERMAN: My mother was born in Portland, my father was born in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Crangle: Right okay.
SCHNEIDERMAN: There was a small Jewish community there, and his parents – Sam and Ida – emigrated from Russia, they came there because there was an uncle there.

Crangle: Right, so Russia was original place that your father’s side of the family was from. And what about your mother’s side?
SCHNEIDERMAN: The same thing, my grandfather grew up in a little village, Shyriaieve, it was near Odessa. And I think, from the stories that I heard, his house was like Tevye’s in Fiddler on the Roof, with a dirt floor. They would cover it with sawdust for Shabbat to make it a little cleaner. And my grandmother grew up in the big city of Odessa.

Crangle: And how did your parents meet each other?
SCHNEIDERMAN: They met at a dance with a Jewish group in Portland. My dad had been transferred here, he worked for General Mills, he was transferred from Oakland, California, and he met my mom.

Crangle: Do you know anything about the dances or where it was, or the circumstances?
SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, I don’t. I don’t.

Crangle: That’s fair enough, you don’t always want to ask your parents about those kind of things. So tell me a bit more about what Jewish life was like in your home growing up. Were you quite an observant family?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Very traditional. We celebrated Shabbat, each Shabbat. My mother bought kosher meat for holidays, my grandparents lived on the next block, family dinners all of the time with our entire family. The synagogue, we were members of Tifereth Israel, and Tifereth Israel was within walking distance. We lived probably a mile and a half away, my grandfather walked, you know, for the holidays we walked there and home. And Tifereth Israel was started in northeast Portland to meet the need of the Jews that had, you know, come from south – Old South Portland.

Crangle: When was that synagogue founded?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I can tell you, 1948 I believe.

Crangle: Okay, so it was a few years after you were born then. Do you remember anything about when and why the synagogue was founded? I mean, you would have been only young.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I think, to meet the needs of the Jewish families in northeast Portland.

Crangle: Right okay.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, and there were a lot – there were enough to fill the synagogue. Each family had its own row to sit in, it was a very heimishe feeling, a very family-oriented feeling to begin that synagogue. My grandfather was on the pulpit, and he was one of the founders with Lou Cogan. My grandparents were very active at that synagogue. And when the kids were little we had this old baby carriage from a cousin, and her four kids had gone through it, our three, and we’d come into the synagogue, stroll the baby carriage up the center aisle, my grandfather would come off the pulpit, give the kids kisses, go back up, it was a very warm feeling at Tifereth Israel.

Crangle: Yeah it sounds quite homely and intimate. Was it quite a small congregation?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah it was. I don’t know how – I don’t, know 150 families, not even that probably. I’m trying to think of the rows, probably 20 rows on each side, 40 rows, and they were all filled.

Crangle: And your family were quite heavily involved with the founding of the synagogue?
SCHNEIDERMAN: My grandparents were.

Crangle: Right okay.
SCHNEIDERMAN: My grandparents were. And then the synagogue wasn’t in a safe part of Portland at that time. Now that area, off of Alberta, is very eclectic. Our kids live over there, it’s very eclectic.
Marty: It’s much safer.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Much safer, but at that time it wasn’t. They synagogue had to hire security men sitting in cars for the high holidays, watching people go in and out. My uncle Arnold was mugged there, and at that point they closed the synagogue and they merged with Shaarie Torah, and Shaarie Torah welcomed the with open arms. It was a nice merging.

Crangle: And do you know when that happened? Was that when you were quite young?
SCHNEIDERMAN: [MS whispers that it may have been during the 1970s] No I wasn’t, I was probably in high school…

Crangle: Oh right, okay.
SCHNEIDERMAN: …when that happened. But we grew up going to Neveh Zedek. Neveh Zedek was a beautiful stone building right on Sixth, and it was – it eventually became, it combined with Ahavai Sholom to become Neveh Shalom. But I went to Sunday School there, I went, my parents taught there, my Aunt Lil was the secretary in the school and my parents were very active in that synagogue.

Crangle: That’s interesting that you grew up in that area. We normally talk about south Portland as being the traditional Jewish community, but it sounds like you still had a very strong Jewish community in that area too. So tell me a bit more about your community in northeast Portland.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Well so that synagogue was started in 1948. And in our neighborhood it was just, we had a lot of Jewish families living around us. We had sidewalks, you know, chestnut trees lined the sidewalks in the front. We had walnut trees in the backyard and we would take those, the walnuts, and pick them and dry them out on screens in the basement, and then give them away. And there were neighborhood stores, was just a few blocks away: a drugstore, you know, with the old-fashioned counters. The grade school was two blocks away.

Crangle: What was the name of the school?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Sabin Grade School. And so I went there K through eight, and our little grandson Liam goes there now.

Crangle: Oh wow, so it still exists.
SCHNEIDERMAN: It still exists, it’s a very old school.

Crangle: That’s nice continuity.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Very old brick building.

Crangle: And when you were growing up what was the ethnic makeup of the neighborhood. Was it predominantly Jewish.
SCHNEIDERMAN: No no no. I mean, we were a Jewish family here, on the next block was a Jewish family, my grandparents lived a block away, and so that was – that really shaped me, having them so close to me. And so the ethnic makeup of the neighborhood was really a little bit of everything.

Crangle: And was that reflected in your classroom at school?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Sometimes I was the only Jewish girl in the class. And there were, I don’t know, maybe seven, eight Jewish kids at Sabin at the time. Matzah sandwiches, can you imagine? For Passover we brought Matzah sandwiches, crumbly little things [JC laughs].

Crangle: That’s interesting. A lot of people we interview went to, like, Shattuck or Failing School where there were, you know, there were predominantly Jewish kids. How did it feel being one of the only Jewish kids in the class? Did that bother you or were you…?
SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, so that’s an interesting statement. I’ve thought about that. I had – one girl said something about, it was a very derogatory name that she called me: (?), I still remember, you know, how awful that felt. My mother came in and we celebrated Hanukah in the classroom. So, how did it feel? It was just the way it was, you know.

Crangle: Yeah. I suppose what I’m asking is, did it make you more conscious of the fact that you were Jewish? Did it make you feel like you stood out, or was it something that wasn’t discussed?
SCHNEIDERMAN: A little bit but not a lot. It – maybe standing out a little bit for things like Passover where my food was so different than everybody else’s. But I don’t remember feeling – other than that one girl that called me a “dirty Jew” or whatever she said – you know, I don’t remember anything else.

Crangle: So aside from that there weren’t many overt examples of discrimination or anything like that.
SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no. No no I don’t remember that. And my best girlfriend – not Jewish – Kathy and I, we celebrated Christmas at her house, she celebrated Hanukah with us. Still best friends today.

Crangle: Oh wow, fantastic. And then, moving on to high school, where did you go?
SCHNEIDERMAN: So I went to Grant High School, there were a lot of Jewish kids at Grant. We ate lunch together, we had a Jewish table. You know, I was very active in the school, in the orchestra, in student government, so there was that part for me. In the Jewish community, growing up at that time, this is interesting, there were – there was AZA and BBG. Each synagogue had its own youth group. In addition to what I just said, there were four young women’s clubs and two men’s clubs. So the interesting part is that they, to be a member of that club it was by invitation only, and people got bids. And some were blackballed. Now that’s a terrible thing. And I never understood why parents didn’t stop that.

Crangle: And do you know why people were blackballed?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Somebody didn’t like them in the club and said “don’t have them, they’re… blah blah”. You know, but that’s the way it was in the 1950s growing up in Portland. I mean, if you got into a club as a kid you’re happy, right? They all want me. But thinking back to somebody who didn’t get into the club, or maybe not one, today we wouldn’t allow that to happen right?

Crangle: Yeah for sure.
SCHNEIDERMAN: We would say…

Crangle: Yeah exactly. And did you get involved with any of them?
SCHNEIDERMAN: All of them [laughs]. I did, which, you know, how could I, knowing that some were not? I wasn’t like that, that wasn’t me, but I was a part of those organizations, yeah.

Crangle: Did you feel bad at the time that some people weren’t getting let in?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I remember that.

Crangle: Were you in a position? Like a leadership position or anything?
SCHNEIDERMAN: In some of them, yes. Yeah. [phone noise in the background]

Crangle: It’s okay, I think it was just a phone. So tell me a bit more about what kind of activities that you would have done at those clubs.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That I was? I was in the orchestra, I was president of the orchestra club. I played the violin. I played my grandfather’s violin. When he left Russia he was 15 years old. They were conscripting young men into the army. He left at 15, he carried his violin with them. He travelled on a – where the coal is kept in a train, and then he went to Belgium, and then took a cattle ship to Montreal. But I played his violin. So, talking about what I did, I was active there, I was active in another couple of clubs at school and some of the Jewish organizations. And they were fun, that part was fun. But the way they didn’t let everybody into it was not the right thing, looking back.

Crangle: And how big were these organizations, were they quite small, exclusive clubs?
SCHNEIDERMAN: A little bit exclusive. A little bit, because there were – you had to get a bid, you know. Some people got many bids, some people got no bids. But in addition to those little clubs there was AZA and BBG, which everybody was welcome to join.

Crangle: And they were for the broader Jewish community in the whole of Portland?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, yes. And then each synagogue had its own organization. Now the problem with that, that sounds great, right? But Portland wasn’t that large of a Jewish community and, in my opinion, it pulled kids apart rather than bringing together, because the synagogues wanted their kids to do their things, and they were very individual.

Crangle: And what was the name of the organizations at your own synagogue?
SCHNEIDERMAN: USY, United Synagogue Youth. And B’Nai Brith Girls, AZA, yeah.

Crangle: That’s interesting, I didn’t realize they separated it out like that. So would you have gone into places like the Neighborhood House and the Jewish Community Center?
SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, you [Marty] did more. The Jewish Community Center, yes, we all had meetings there. That’s where the BBG/AZA meetings were. So we were there every Tuesday night. And Marty went into Old South Portland more than I did, and that’s where the Neighborhood House was.

Crangle: So that wasn’t really a part of your upbringing.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Not of mine, no.

Crangle: Okay, so when you were at high school you said there was a much bigger Jewish community, were you friends with non-Jewish people as well?
SCHNEIDERMAN: With everybody. Yes, I was because I was active in the school with different things, so I had friends all over the place.

Crangle: Right okay. I don’t think I asked, what did your parents do for a living?
SCHNEIDERMAN: My dad sold insurance. When he first came here he worked for General Mills, but he ended up working for Metropolitan Life Insurance. My mother was a bookkeeper, and a really good bookkeeper, and she had – she was accepted to Reed College. That was a big thing. However, for reasons we don’t understand, her parents – at that time it wasn’t as important for girls to go on to school. My uncles all went to college, but my mother didn’t go, and she was really the brightest, you know.

Crangle: Yeah, well I suppose that’s just the context of the age.
SCHNEIDERMAN: But Reed College, that was big.

Crangle: Yeah, that was an opportunity for sure.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah.

Crangle: Tell me a bit about your own educational development, what subjects were you good at in high school, what did you have an aptitude for?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Language arts, social studies. Just probably like everybody.

Crangle: Yeah, and then you went on to college?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I went to Portland State, and we met [her and Marty].

Crangle: Great. Did you stay living at home while you were at Portland State?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Well yes, I did. But, however, my cousin and I wanted to get an apartment, but I was going with Marty and she was going with her husband to be, and both of our parents didn’t want us to…
Marty: [whispers] They didn’t trust us.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, they didn’t want us to get to be by ourselves in an apartment. In that day and age, you know. So we didn’t.

Crangle: Okay, that sounds like an opportunity missed as well.
SCHNEIDERMAN: [all laugh] It was, I know. It would have been so much fun.

Crangle: It would have been, yeah. So tell me about how the two of you met then. You met at college?
SCHNEIDERMAN: During the war, our mothers strolled the baby carriages next to each other when our dads were in World War Two. We didn’t meet until college, we met in a biology class, right? John Woods, I remember. And I looked at his red hair and I though “god, he’s so cute” [laughs]. And so he asked me out, and on our second date he said “someday I’m going to ask you to marry me”.

Crangle: Wow.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And I was just taken aback. And we just started going together all the time.

Crangle: So you went on a lot of dates around places in Portland.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, but we didn’t date others from that time forth, it was just the two of us, right.

Crangle: Right okay, so you were committed from quite an early stage.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, and we’ve shared a great love affair. We’re going on 54 years, and he’s my rock and my supporter, and anything I’ve done I couldn’t have done it without [Marty]. I taught school, I’m a retired schoolteacher, Marty used to make me lunches and bring them, you know. We have three girls and I taught – Kim and I taught five years together at one of the elementary schools. I’d come in in the morning with two little sacks, one with my name, one with Kim’s on it.

Crangle: That sounds great.
SCHNEIDERMAN: So I feel blessed. I feel so blessed.

Crangle: Well definitely, we’ll get onto some of those topics for sure. So tell me a bit about… or you want to add something?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Well I wanted to talk about my grandparents.

Crangle: Oh yeah, of course. Go for it, what did you have to say?
SCHNEIDERMAN: My Grandpa Jack, I told you, came to America. And two of his brothers were here, and three brothers came out, across immigration, with three different last names. And it was all what was heard by the person interviewing them: so one was Shaman, one was shochet, and my grandpa was Sherman.

Crangle: Right okay. So they were assigned names by the border officials.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I think they said the name, and then whatever the person who heard the name heard, they wrote down. I mean, they had thick accents and they didn’t know English, right?

Crangle: Yeah exactly.
SCHNEIDERMAN: So it’s whatever they heard. So that was – anyway, he came and he peddled first of all, and then he saved his money and he sent for his childhood friend, Sam Gvinter. And he brought Sam Gvinter over from Russia, and they opened up Northwest Hardware and Plumbing Store. It was this huge building right on Front Street, right across from the old Journal Building which was the old newspaper. And grandpa owned 51% of it and Sam owned 49% of it, and they were partners. The hardware store stayed there for 42 years; they owned it.

Crangle: So do you remember going to the store as a child?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes because, from Portland State, I used to walk down there to get a ride home. And I knew where all the toilet bowls, the nails, the tubs were. I knew that store.

Crangle: Did you ever help out in the store?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No.

Crangle: No. Was it a big family business or just the two of them?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Just, no – yeah none of my uncles went into it. No, just my grandfather and Sam. They were very – my grandparents were very religious, you know, we had big Passover dinners at their house. There were 11 kids, my mother and her three brothers. We had big dinners there crowded together in this little room, little dining room, you know. Men always were served first, my Grandma Sarah, you know, they had a special order.

Crangle: Obviously it was a bit before your time, but do you know how they managed to establish themselves in the city? Was there a lot of support from the existing Jewish community?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Of family. From the – yes, from the families that were here. He had two brothers here.

Crangle: So it was a case of, they send for him and were able to help him out getting established.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And then my grandmother came, Grandma Sarah came when she was 15 years old. One story I recall, you know the historical figure, Rasputin?

Crangle: Mm-hmm.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Okay. Well she was 10 years old, and she was on the streets of Odessa, and he was a wild looking man, you know, whipping the horses. And she jumped back into a storefront, she said. But she saw him go by.

Crangle: Wow, that’s certainly a claim to fame.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s a claim to fame, yeah.

Crangle: So what do you remember about your grandparents? Because obviously you grew up in Portland, American child, and having these grandparents from Russia. Do you have any particular memories of them?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, so many. I mean, they lived on the next block, there wasn’t a day of my life that I didn’t see them. And they, you know, I’d walk past their house on the way to school. I’d walk home that way, I’d stop in, sometimes I went there for lunch, my mother was working as a bookkeeper. They played – they were very impactful on my life and, I think, helped shape me. I mean, you know, I grew up happy, you know, you’re surrounded by people that love you that way. Yeah, they were great great people. So it was interesting because they surrounded themselves with 11 grandchildren, there was always somebody, right, over there. But they were always near, around younger people. They weren’t old-thinking. Like, when you say coming from the old country you’d think some were a little… They were very family-oriented, very young-thinking, always up to do something. They were great people.

Crangle: And did they speak good English by that time?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Perfect English. No accent.

Crangle: Really? Wow, so they sounded like they were from America?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No, they came when they were 15.

Crangle: Yeah I suppose.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I mean, all those years of – right?

Crangle: Yeah, so I suppose they would have felt, almost, more American.
SCHNEIDERMAN: They were so comfortable with everything. Now my Dad, Lester’s father passed away before my parents were even married, I was named for him. And my Grandma Ida lived in Portland, and she was more serious. Her nature was more serious, you know. Wonderful person, wonderful cook, but her manner was more serious than Grandma Sarah’s.

Crangle: And when did the rest of your grandparents pass away?
SCHNEIDERMAN: So 1983 maybe. No, grandma Sarah? ‘63? No that’s not right. See, the dates. It was 1968 – I can tell you – Lisa was born in 1968 and she was, she was a baby.
Marty: She was named after Lillian.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, my aunt. So ’68, she was probably six, eight years old. The other girls were littler.
Marty: Your grandfather died in 1972.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And then my grandmother…
Marty: Because I remember there was the oil crisis and I was in line.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s right, you were in line to get oil.
Marty: For the car, to get gas. I mean, there was no gas.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, you’re right honey.
Marty: And I got a phone call, I finally found out that he had passed away.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I called the police to locate him, he was in line because of the gas line, it’s true.
Marty: We didn’t have these [indicates his mobile phone].

Crangle: Yeah.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s true, I remember that. So then the kids were little, so it was probably ’75. Yeah, and they all passed away within a couple of years of each other.

Crangle: Right okay. So it certainly sounds like your family had a strong influence on you growing up.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah.

Crangle: So tell me a little bit more about your adult life. What did you major in at college?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Education.

Crangle: Right okay. And when did you decide that that was the path you wanted to go down?
SCHNEIDERMAN: So I was always good working with kids. And I didn’t – I had started college and most of us were sociology majors, right? Because we didn’t know what else to do. Then I was just, you know, thinking what am I doing? And I went in for an aptitude test at the counseling department at Portland State. Everything came back high in working with kids, and the counselor said “you should be a teacher, this is what you’ll need for the next two years”. Everything was laid out, I left that office feeling so great. And it was just a wonderful decision because I’ve loved my teaching career. I still sub, I’m on the adjunct faculty at Portland State, I supervise student teachers. And so I’ve loved my career and I couldn’t have done it without this guy [Marty]. Yeah.

Crangle: Well I think you should take the credit for yourself as well.
SCHNEIDERMAN: It’s been a wonderful career, it’s been a wonderful career. It has.

Crangle: So when did you start teaching?
SCHNEIDERMAN: 1965.

Crangle: As soon as you graduated? And did you stay in the same place or go to a few different schools?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I taught in Tigard my whole career and moved around within the district. I taught K through eight. I opened two new schools: one was Hazelbrook Middle School and one was – I was a Kindergarten teacher at another school. Yeah.

Crangle: Right okay.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Teachers kind of – but the whole district my whole career, yeah.

Crangle: And so when did you get married?
SCHNEIDERMAN: In 1965. Marty – so he had taken time off because he’d been in the army. So I graduated the summer before you did, right? And he was a milkman when we first got married. And…
Marty: [whispers something inaudible].

Crangle: Great, so you were really starting your family at this point. Where did you decide to live?
SCHNEIDERMAN: We lived in Tigard because I was teaching in Tigard. And we had, remember the cows in a field behind the house, behind our little apartment, right? I mean it wasn’t developed, Tigard was not developed at that time.

Crangle: And presumably there was not much of a Jewish community out there.
SCHNEIDERMAN: In Tigard? No. But, I mean, it’s like a suburb of Portland. So it was like a 25, 30 minute drive to my parents’ house, or to Marty’s parents’ house, so it wasn’t like living in another city, it’s a suburb, it’s right there.

Crangle: And what synagogue did you start going to when you were an adult?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Neveh Shalom. We were married there. We were the second couple married at Neveh Shalom. That’s on Dosch Road, the new one, right? When Neveh Zedek and Ahavai Sholom – second or third couple.

Crangle: Do you know who the first couple was?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Bette Lynn and Al Menashe.

Crangle: Okay right, great.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And we were married like six months after.
Marty: [whispers something inaudible].

Crangle: So you still kept – even though you’d moved out to the suburbs, you still kept a very close relationship with the old community.
SCHNEIDERMAN: With everybody. Yeah, with everybody.

Crangle: Great.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, I mean the friends – everybody, we were living southwest Portland. So where we were living was southwest Portland, even though it said Tigard. It’s not that it’s – it’s another city but it’s all right there, yeah.

Crangle: And did you have to – did you move synagogues at some point? Or you stayed at the same one?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No, we’re still members of Neveh Shalom.

Crangle: Yeah, it was Marty who moved over from…
Marty: Temple.
Crangle: Yeah from Temple, yes I remember that from the previous interview. And then, so tell me a bit more about your kids, when they were born.
SCHNEIDERMAN: We have three girls, those dates I remember.

Crangle: Yeah, hopefully.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Lisa was born in 1968, Kim in 1970, and Stephanie in 1972. And we all, you know, were traditional in what we raised them with. We – they all went to Sunday School at Neveh Shalom. They went to Schechter, BB Camp, they all had bat mitzvahs. We raised them with the importance of family. We made sure we had Shabbat dinner together every Friday night. I mean, when high school started there were football games: we ate early. You know, that was really important for us. And so they are all wonderful women. We’re so proud of them. Lisa has her own public relations business. She’s been involved in youth organizations for many many years. Kimberly is the music teacher at Portland Jewish Academy, and she’s a singer-songwriter. She leads a musical service with Rabbi Rachel at Temple once a month. Stephanie is a singer-songwriter, she has produced several CDs. She is married to Tony, who is also a singer-songwriter. And he is a sculptor. The girls – I don’t know if you are familiar with the OyBaby! CDs.

Crangle: I think I’ve heard of them, yeah.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Those are our girls. Stephanie produced those and they all – they made four CDs. Beautiful Jewish melodic music, it’s beautiful.

Crangle: So it’s interesting that you said it was sort of a conscious decision for you, when you were bringing your girls up, to make sure that they had a traditional upbringing. That was clearly something that was important to you from the start.
SCHNEIDERMAN: We did. And tradition, the holidays, you know. The holidays kind of defined our family, and still do in many ways. We have had 60, 65 people at our house for Rosh Hashanah every single year. We’ve made those kinds of things important. Thanksgiving is one of our most favorite holidays, Marty does his beautiful turkey, I’m his sous-chef. It’s – those are good feelings with family.

Crangle: For sure. And it doesn’t even necessarily matter what the holiday is for sometimes.
SCHNEIDERMAN: No just that you get together. And it’s so busy, everybody is so busy. But we really treasure those times. Kim has two daughters, we have two granddaughters. Sarah is a dancer, Sophia is a volleyball player, they’re both in high school. Little Liam is the son of Stephanie and Tony, first boy in 70 years in our family, and he’s delightful. He goes to Sabin Grade School where I went.

Crangle: And are your grandchildren being raised with a Jewish education?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, they really are. Kim – the girls’ father is not Jewish, so they have that side of it too. And Tony is, Tony – it’s interesting, our son in law, wonderful wonderful person, and he went back and did a study, and he thinks his family members were Marrano Jews. You know, from Portugal, Portuguese. But he wasn’t raised Jewish.

Crangle: Right okay. That’s an interesting link there.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I know.

Crangle: So how do you think your grandchildren’s Jewish education is different from, say, yours when you were growing up? Tell me about some of the differences that you have observed. And from your own children as well.
SCHNEIDERMAN: So, I mean one is the – is bringing in another religion, right? So they celebrate Christmas, the grandchildren do a little bit. We went to Sunday School every Sunday, the kids don’t, you know. They’re getting more – they’re getting traditional things brought in from their parents more, yeah.

Crangle: So it’s more about the overall message rather than just strictly following the rituals all the time.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Right, yes. I mean, Kim is so involved in the Jewish community, with Portland Jewish Academy and with Temple Beth Israel, and you know. So she brings all of that to her girls. They know they’re Jewish, and they’re very active in BBG which is nice.

Crangle: No that must be really satisfying, knowing that they’ve continued their involvement so heavily.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, to the girls. It’s important to our girls yeah.

Crangle: For sure. I don’t think I asked, you mentioned you had a sibling?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I do, uh-huh.

Crangle: Tell me a bit about them.
SCHNEIDERMAN: She lives in Portland with her family.

Crangle: Okay, fair enough yeah.
SCHNEIDERMAN: What else do I have? Let’s see.

Crangle: And I have a few more questions I wanted to ask. Can you tell me, was your family politically involved at all?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Not politically involved, but always involved in the community, in the Jewish community. And all of us – we’ve had our share of serving on boards for different, you know, community agencies. And we raised our kids to give back. That’s what I want to say about the girls, they all give back to the community, they’re very caring people and they give back in a lot of different ways.

Crangle: For sure. And, yeah, could you tell me a little bit more about some of those boards that you have sat on. Some of the boards and committees.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Years ago, the Jewish Community Center. Marty was on the board of the synagogue.

Crangle: Right okay. So it was more just a general sense of thinking you want to contribute.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah. And being in charge of events, we did our fair share of that when the kids were growing up.

Crangle: I think I asked Marty this question as well, but it would be interesting to hear your take on when yourself and your family – and the community in general – and certainly you in your life, became aware of what had happened during the war years, during the Holocaust. And the impact that finding out about that would have had on you and your family and community more generally.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I mean it was horrifying, right? To learn all of that. And just that feeling of how can people treat other people that way. To my knowledge, we didn’t have any family that we lost in the Holocaust. But just that horrifying feeling of everything. And I’m drawn to Holocaust material. If there’s a book or a movie out, something that I want to see, yeah. And just the feeling of saying “never again”.

Crangle: Yeah. And did your family talk about it much?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I don’t think so, not a lot, not that I can remember. No but we always knew it was there. It’s interesting, isn’t it? Not to talk about it so much.

Crangle: I’m just wondering, because obviously, you were a child when this was happening. And nowadays you would teach kids that this is something that happened a long time ago, whereas I’m just wondering how you first found out that this had happened during your lifetime?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I think I always knew it. Just growing up. Some in high school, some classes. And then as a teacher I worked with Wendy Liebrich – you interviewed Wendy – and she was instrumental in the Anne Frank Holocaust exhibit here in Portland. As a teacher I got materials from her and trained. I was teaching middle school at the time, and trained teachers that I was working with – seventh grade – and we brought all the seventh graders to the exhibit, and then had a day of events. So as a teacher I’ve tried to really teach and, never again. Yeah.

Crangle: I think that’s really important. And that’s certainly central to what we do at the museum as well, it’s learning lessons about all forms of intolerance in the past, and saying “how can we apply this to the future?”
SCHNEIDERMAN: Right, right.

Crangle: Were you ever involved in any other civil rights campaigns? I’m thinking of…
SCHNEIDERMAN: No not really. I don’t think so. We’re not demonstrators. Being in a group of a crowd that could get rowdy has never been appealing in that way. So our contributions are in other ways, welcoming everybody, you know.

Crangle: No I think that’s certainly a good way to approach things. And what do you do now in your retirement? Well, semi-retirement. You’re still running the business part-time. Is that right?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Well Marty opened the Grocery Bag, this was a shopping and delivery service, and he’s mostly, semi-retired. He’s retained a few of his clients. And I work, I’m on the adjunct faculty at Portland State, so I supervise student teachers, and I try and sub just to keep my hand in the teaching a little bit.

Crangle: And when did you retire from your main teaching?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Teaching? But then in 2005 I got a phone call saying “can you help out?” I taught for the next year and a half. Somebody got sick and they needed someone to co-teach, and I did that and was offered another position the following year.

Crangle: Okay, yeah so it’s difficult to stay out then.
SCHNEIDERMAN: It is. ‘Cause I loved it, I truly loved it yeah.

Crangle: And were you involved with the grocery business as well or was that just Marty?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Only to take orders once in a while. And people would call, and I would take the order and I would be really specific, “what do you want?” “Marty knows.” And they would say to Marty “go and get something at the bakery,” and he knew what they liked. He is very personable and just, you know, really connected with his clients to do the best he could for them.

Crangle: Great. And, yeah did you have something else you want to add?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No, you know what – no you what was interesting? So, our house, when I was a little girl had a sawdust furnace. In the basement there was a room where a truck would come with a tube and pipe in sawdust that would fill the room up. And in the mornings – this was when I was really little – my dad would come down with the shovel, and he would shovel sawdust into the furnace, light it, and that would heat the house. [MS imitates the sound of an explosion] Yeah, and then they converted to electricity [all laughs]. It’s a funny memory.

Crangle: Yeah for sure.
SCHNEIDERMAN: ‘Cause I don’t know anyone else who had a sawdust furnace. I know.

Crangle: No I’ve certainly not come across one I don’t think.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I know.
Marty: Coal.
SCHNEIDERMAN: No they didn’t have coal, they had, no it was just kind of…

Crangle: So how has the Jewish community in Portland changed since your childhood? I mean, we talked about the ways in which people are educated.
SCHNEIDERMAN:  Maybe more involvement. Maybe there’s more – there’s more organizations, that’s one big thing, many more. I don’t know if – that’s the way it is. And they all pull you in their own little directions.

Crangle: So are you involved with any of the organizations now?
SCHNEIDERMAN: We volunteer time to, you know, there’s the food drive there, getting donations.
Marty: [whispers] Jewish Family and Child Service.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Jewish Family and Child Service. But not, not greatly involved in that. But for many years we did, when the kids were little, I was so busy.

Crangle: Yeah, and I think just the fact of keeping in touch with people and, you know, keeping your connections is retaining involvement as well, in a sense.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Right, right. But we were involved – we said no to nothing. You get burned out when you do that.

Crangle: It must have been tricky, when you were working full time, to balance everything.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Oh yeah. We did it, I don’t know, we look each other and we say “how did we do this?” Because that’s what it was like.

Crangle: Yeah it’s certainly full on. And it sounds like your kids are doing a similar thing.
SCHNEIDERMAN: They’re doing the same thing. It’s not always so good to say yes to everything, right? [laughs] It’s just really busy.

Crangle: Well if you can make it work then why not make it work?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, that’s true. That’s really true, yeah.

Crangle: Did you have anything else you wanted to add? Because I feel like I’ve covered most of the checklist, but if there was anything else that you prepared or said you wanted to talk about.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I don’t think so. I – this is interesting, my mother’s name – my mother was named Minnie, and so was her cousin, her first cousin. And they didn’t like those names, so they changed them. My mother became Minnette, she found that in a book, and her cousin became Millie. So, and when I turned 50, my name is S-H-A-R-O-N. However, we were at a restaurant and the waiter had ‘Sharyn’, S-H-A-R-Y-N. I thought, I love it. And I started spelling my name S-H-A-R-Y-N.
Marty: [whispers] It’s not legal.
SCHNEIDERMAN: It’s not legal.

Crangle: Oh it’s not legal, is it? Yeah.
SCHNEIDERMAN: She made her name legal, my mother, right.

Crangle: No I noticed that actually. Because when I had your details.
SCHNEIDERMAN: You saw it both ways probably?

Crangle: On our system – well no, I saw it with a Y and thought “that’s an unusual spelling”, I don’t think I’ve seen that before. So I didn’t realize that it was your own choice. So that was when you turned 50 you said?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Mmm-hmm.

Crangle: And it was just…
SCHNEIDERMAN: Fun.

Crangle: Sort of a spur of the moment…
SCHNEIDERMAN: Pure fun. Yes, I saw it and I thought “I’m going to change… let’s change the spelling in my name.”

Crangle: Wow, that’s not something everyone can say they’ve done, for sure [both laugh].
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s silly, he [Marty] laughs – laughs at me.

Crangle: Did you dislike the way your name was spelled before that?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no. Nope. I just thought it was fun, and I was 50, and I wanted to do it.

Crangle: Fair enough.
SCHNEIDERMAN: No other big reason.
Marty: [whispers] It’s better than a tattoo. [all laugh]
SCHNEIDERMAN: When you turn 50 we’ll see what you do Jack.

Crangle: Well, we’ll see. Right. Well that’s been really interesting as well, it’s good to have a different perspective. Because it sounds like, obviously, you’ve shared so much of your lives together but you’ve also got different backgrounds as well. So it’s nice to have both of those on record.
SCHNEIDERMAN: It’s nice.
Marty: Can I say something?

Crangle: Yeah of course.
Marty: Yeah, we’ve been together – we’ve been together longer than we’ve not been together.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s a good feeling. You’ll – someday may you know that.
Marty: So, you know, that tells a lot. Our formatable years, growing up, of course. And your last question was, of course, important. How has the Jewish community changed today compared to when we were, you know, maybe 40 years ago when we were in our 20s or 30s. A lot. And you answered it correctly, it’s – obviously, it’s more organized, more – I mean with this [smartphones] ability to communicate, everything is just right on, you know, type of thing. And, yet, the different organizations vie, not against one another, but they – I think they’re combining now because of need to combine forces, because of the cost of everything. I mean, the Robison Home, you know, the Jewish – obviously, the Federation, the Jewish Family and Child Service, what they require every year for donations and money and everything to keep it going. So there’s a lot, you know, there’s a lot at stake. And, you know, not just here in Portland, all over. I mean, what happened – the other thing, I think I mentioned it in my deal was what happened in Pittsburgh, and how that effects… You know, years later maybe people will look at that and say, you know, maybe it’s too raw right now. Or it’s too, you know, it’s a hard thing to contemplate that, god, this happened in the United States. I mean, in a free nation, whether it’s the UK or United States or whatever, it’s just horrible. It’s pretty raw. I mean, still for these families, obviously, and I think for the nation as well, or for the Jewish population of the nation, to have this happen.

Crangle: Well I guess it’s similar to the point I made about the Holocaust as well. You know, how do you digest and think about something that’s happened so recently?
Marty: I think, in the – to ask again, at home, I can’t remember – the same as Sharyn – how we sat around and discussed the Holocaust. I think, mentioning the war, my uncle was in Ger-, in Europe, and he did go into the camps to – with Patton’s army. But he never talked about it. I mean we knew, we knew that he did that, he was there. He was just a kid, he was maybe 22, 23, you know, just a kid. I mean, most of these guys, sort of, were kids. You know, so you bring that home, that’s an experience, and you talk about it and you say “oh my god, how could this ever happen?” You know, how could it ever happen? And it happened. And yes, this happened again in Pittsburgh because of hate. Because of hate, raw hate. And how does that take place? Where did that come from?
SCHNEIDERMAN: But we talked about all of those things when the kids were growing up. Our dinner discussions covered everything. More so than what I remember as kids.
Marty: We talked about being a Jew.
SCHNEIDERMAN: But as a kid we didn’t have, I don’t remember those discussions.
Marty: And it wasn’t the parochial way of, you know, being a Jew, going to the synagogue and sitting there and going through the liturgy of, you know, commandments and the whole thing. That wasn’t my part of it anyway. It was just knowing who you are, you know, and without the parochial or the continual, you know, going to the synagogue and praying and all of that. Never really did that. That wasn’t part of me anyway.

Crangle: Yeah. I guess that’s similar to what you said Sharyn, that it’s sort of about the meaning behind the rituals rather than just the rituals themselves.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Right. I will tell you what my dad told me. I was, you know, active at school, I dated guys that were not Jewish. And he took me aside and he said “you have to marry somebody Jewish”. He said, if you don’t – he said “and if everybody intermarries, our religion will die out”. I remember him saying that to me.

Crangle: And how did you feel about that?
SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, so, I mean in my heart I always knew I’d marry somebody Jewish. I was just having fun, right?

Crangle: So you knew that before he said that, had that conversation with you?
SCHNEIDERMAN: I think so, yeah. I mean, I was raised Jewish and I always knew that.
Marty: And yes, I was brought up much more reform than Sharyn, from where I came from, it’s almost the opposite of – you know, I got into the ritualistic part of it – dinners and high holidays and all of that – after I met Sharyn. But, you know, our girls – it’s interesting, you bring up – our girls were brought up, you know, with us, knowing who they are. And they went to confirmation, Sunday School.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Bat mitzvahs.
Marty: You know, the whole thing. And yet, the fact – the truth of the matter is they didn’t marry a Jewish person. They didn’t choose to marry, they didn’t fall in love with a Jewish person. Now, they had dates, they went out with Jewish guys. And yet…
SCHNEIDERMAN: Nothing clicked.
Marty: Nothing clicked, obviously. And so, okay, okay. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it is.

Crangle: Was that ever a disappointment at all?
SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, it’s an interesting question. I mean, we raised them – and we had dinners with anybody that they wanted to invite over. And we raised them to be accepting to everybody. And so, was it a disappointment? We knew how much they loved…
Marty: No it was a reality.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I mean, our oldest daughter has a gentile boyfriend. It’s interesting, all three.
Marty: Yeah, and Kimi, who married Greek Orthodox which is the extreme of Judaism, basically.

Crangle: Yeah and that’s the most important thing.
Marty: Yeah, you know what I mean. I mean, okay – and we knew that she loved him. So what am I going to do? What are we going to do? “No, you can’t marry him”?
SCHNEIDERMAN: No I mean that’s… In the olden days, they would have done that, right?
Marty: Back in the olden days you’d marry your – you know – you don’t marry outside of… That’s not the case anymore in America, or the other parts of the free world, I don’t think.

Crangle: Yeah that’s interesting that there’s a tangible change that you can observe.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Isn’t that interesting?
Marty: Oh there’s no question. That’s probably one of the biggest changes.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s a big – for every family we know.
Marty: You asked that question. Probably one of the biggest changes that I have seen, the assimilation into the American theme, and bringing in all different types of ethnic groups and people and religions and everybody. So it’s an open-door policy for that.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s true.
Marty: And the basics was we always taught our girls to be accepting of everyone.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And they will tell us – they’ll tell you that. If you were to ask them, they would say “that’s how we were raised.”
Marty: And if we were to question them on who they chose, they would say “well wait a minute Dad, you said to us…” You see, that was a lesson learned. “You said to us – said be open. We can – as long as they’re good to us.” Without the religious bearing down on you, you know, that aspect of it. So that was, that’s the truth. And if I were to do it all over again, I’d do the same thing. Seriously.
SCHNEIDERMAN: I mean you can’t, you know, your kids are so important.
Marty: I wasn’t brought up that way. I was also brought up openly, you know, bring him in. Look at Harry up in Seattle. He had so many friends of all different groups.
SCHNEIDERMAN: That’s true, that’s true,
Marty: He knew who he was but, boy, he was like a magnet. People would come to him because he was a…
SCHNEIDERMAN: He was uncle Harry.
Marty: Uncle Harry. Because he was, just that kind of guy. He was just that kind of person, people just gravitated towards him because they knew that he was a good friend. You know, so that, to me, I mean to be Jewish, that’s probably one of the most important things, I think, of bringing in all kinds. Now, a lot of them, it’s all Jewish. It’s all boom boom boom, if it ain’t Jewish then we’re not going to get involved. We’re not that way.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah.
Marty: We’ve never been that way.

Crangle: Yeah, well it sounds like you’ve definitely got your message across very well.
SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, one other difference that is big with families today from the way we were growing up, we went on picnics every single weekend. And I mean every single weekend. Jantzen Beach, Laurelhurst Park. It was all my mother’s aunts and uncles. It was everybody.
Marty: Family.
SCHNEIDERMAN: The family.
Marty: The big nucleus.
SCHNEIDERMAN: And in today’s, you know, it’s so busy, right? It’s so busy that people can’t do that. Sports events or…
Marty: This thing [smartphone] has interrupted life as we knew it.
SCHNEIDERMAN: Yeah, everything.
Marty: And I – because of my age, I go back and say “boy, this new generation, they’re missing some stuff here.”

Crangle: Could be right, yeah.
Marty: You know, they’re missing some stuff. They’re missing that personal touch that’s needed more so in today’s world than ever before, in my opinion. So, I mean, anyway.

Crangle: Okay, well I think I’ve certainly covered everything.
SCHNEIDERMAN: We’re good.

Crangle: If we’re all happy then I’ll switch that off.